| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
pilznr
249 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2009 : 09:12:34 AM
|
By now, you've probably heard of the ongoing work at Greensfelder. Here's a teaser of what's in store in the near future.
As of Tuesday, Oct. 20th, everything on both the red and blue loops is rideable with the exception of the switchback sites below the radio tower. If you're really determined, you could probably ride even those. I'm using rideable in a loose sense, parts are very rough.
The red loop is 8.5 miles one way, and is all singletrack with the exception of 1/4 mile of the chat covered Eagle Valley trail. The rest of the singletrack that completes Eagle Valley, and is part of this loop, should be finished Sat. the 24th.
The blue loop is the Eagle Valley trail, and is 4 miles long. As mentioned, it is chat covered, and you will probably encounter many equestrians on it as it passes directly by the stables, so be sure and practice proper trail etiquette. It is similar to the Katy, except that there is elevation change. Its main advantage will be that you can ride it in just about any weather.
Some of the connectors that make these trails into loops are not in very good shape, for example, the Green Rock section that connects from Scenic Loop road down to EV is one-way straight down fall-line. We hope to build a better connector in the future, but for now this does the job. Also, the blue section of EV behind the stables is in really bad shape. You're probably better taking the road there, and bypassing that section. Right now, it's probably best to ride the red loop counterclockwise. You could also combine both loops into a figure 8 if you want to ride EV as well.
As you can see, we've been busy out here, and this park has incredible potential. It will most likely be Spring 2010 before the switchbacks on the DeClue extension are finished, and there's still a lot of work to do to get all of this into shape, but for now, if you want to try something different out at Greensfelder, now's your chance.
If you can, please volunteer to help with some trail work or maintenance. The more people we have working out there, the faster we can move on to building the next section of trail, which is already flagged and approved!
A larger version of the map can be found here.
|
Edited by - pilznr on 10/22/2009 09:15:52 AM |
|
|
stlmtbiker
116 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 5:43:12 PM
|
| After the Declue Extension reachs the Scenic Loop Road, is it going to go down to Eagle Valley or stay on the Declue side of the road and connect to the Beaulah Trail or Overlook Trail? |
 |
|
|
seamonkey
Nigeria
481 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 8:39:52 PM
|
More than likely, it will work its way back to the Roundhouse Parking Lot to finish it off as a true loop. However, we are looking at other avenues so this scenario is not set in stone.
|
Matt Hayes
GORC Vice-President & Web Administrator |
Edited by - seamonkey on 10/22/2009 8:46:07 PM |
|
|
|
Thrasher
222 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 9:30:21 PM
|
Awesome progress Matt!
Can I assume there is also a plan to utilize the northernmost portion of Greensfelder (off the map now)? I know you've bushwacked it, and it's some killer terrain. As I've discussed with you and Bryan in the past, I think a key connection would be a loop (or spur) to connect to Melrose Road since Greenrock in Rockwoods Reservation is off-limits.
This would open up the "West County trifecta" of Chubb/Greensfelder/Castlewood without trespassing in Rockwoods. If nothing else, it encourages people to ride in via the Al Foster.
Wildwood Parks has expressed interest in making this connection also. The plan for 2010 is to extend their network from its present terminus at Woods & 109 across (under, via a tunnel actually) 109 into Rockwoods Reservation, with a bike lane along Glencoe Road in RR. They also have said a key component is to connect the major parks (Greensfelder/RR and Babler). They may be willing/able to help financially with a trailhead/access/signage. I'd be happy to talk to them about this.
Thanks again for all your efforts. I'll see you soon at another GF workday.
Craig |
Edited by - Thrasher on 10/22/2009 9:33:37 PM |
|
|
|
Deserteagle99uzi
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2009 : 05:05:24 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasher
Awesome progress Matt!
Can I assume there is also a plan to utilize the northernmost portion of Greensfelder (off the map now)? I know you've bushwacked it, and it's some killer terrain. As I've discussed with you and Bryan in the past, I think a key connection would be a loop (or spur) to connect to Melrose Road since Greenrock in Rockwoods Reservation is off-limits.
This would open up the "West County trifecta" of Chubb/Greensfelder/Castlewood without trespassing in Rockwoods. If nothing else, it encourages people to ride in via the Al Foster.
Wildwood Parks has expressed interest in making this connection also. The plan for 2010 is to extend their network from its present terminus at Woods & 109 across (under, via a tunnel actually) 109 into Rockwoods Reservation, with a bike lane along Glencoe Road in RR. They also have said a key component is to connect the major parks (Greensfelder/RR and Babler). They may be willing/able to help financially with a trailhead/access/signage. I'd be happy to talk to them about this.
Thanks again for all your efforts. I'll see you soon at another GF workday.
Craig
This is the first i've heard of this, if it's a true possibility you'd better believe I'd drag my lazy ass out to work on it EVERY weekend and I bet a lot of other people would too. While bushwacking new trail in GF will be VERY fun in the next few years, connecting together a true trail system from Cwood--->Chubb--->GF and possibly RR would be very convenient although it would require some long term forsight and plans. |
|
|
|
Thrasher
222 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2009 : 12:04:38 PM
|
This plan has been in the works for a few years.
Eureka City Parks is working with Wildwood City Parks to get these connections made. It really helps that Wildwood's Parks Superintendent is a Eureka resident and on their trails committee.
Wildwood has always stated a major goal for its city trails network is to connect Babler, Rockwoods and Greensfelder. Naturally, some use of existing roadways (like Melrose and Glencoe) would be necessary to avoid crossing private land. That's why getting trail access into areas like Greensfelder's northern edge is key in making this happen.
Closure of the Route 66 bridge over the Meramec aside, things are moving forward... just not as quickly as we'd all like.
here are a couple of archived posts on the subject:
http://www.gorctrails.com/board/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=1131&SearchTerms=driving,range
http://www.gorctrails.com/board/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2749&SearchTerms=eureka,parks
|
Edited by - Thrasher on 11/05/2009 12:17:41 PM |
|
|
|
stlmtbiker
116 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2009 : 7:04:05 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasher
This plan has been in the works for a few years.
Eureka City Parks is working with Wildwood City Parks to get these connections made. It really helps that Wildwood's Parks Superintendent is a Eureka resident and on their trails committee.
Wildwood has always stated a major goal for its city trails network is to connect Babler, Rockwoods and Greensfelder. Naturally, some use of existing roadways (like Melrose and Glencoe) would be necessary to avoid crossing private land. That's why getting trail access into areas like Greensfelder's northern edge is key in making this happen.
Closure of the Route 66 bridge over the Meramec aside, things are moving forward... just not as quickly as we'd all like.
here are a couple of archived posts on the subject:
http://www.gorctrails.com/board/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=1131&SearchTerms=driving,range
http://www.gorctrails.com/board/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2749&SearchTerms=eureka,parks
There was some stuff in the old threads about an Al Foster Extension going to Route 66. They said most landowners had approved the easement, but there were still some holdouts. What's the story with that? Just wondering how its coming along. |
|
|
|
Deserteagle99uzi
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 01:09:33 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasher
This plan has been in the works for a few years.
Eureka City Parks is working with Wildwood City Parks to get these connections made. It really helps that Wildwood's Parks Superintendent is a Eureka resident and on their trails committee.
Wildwood has always stated a major goal for its city trails network is to connect Babler, Rockwoods and Greensfelder. Naturally, some use of existing roadways (like Melrose and Glencoe) would be necessary to avoid crossing private land. That's why getting trail access into areas like Greensfelder's northern edge is key in making this happen.
Closure of the Route 66 bridge over the Meramec aside, things are moving forward... just not as quickly as we'd all like.
here are a couple of archived posts on the subject:
http://www.gorctrails.com/board/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=1131&SearchTerms=driving,range
http://www.gorctrails.com/board/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2749&SearchTerms=eureka,parks
Thanks for the links and sorry for the slow response. I didn't realize that a plan of this scale had been being formulated this long. Found this article on the route 66 bridge closing:
http://www.modot.mo.gov/stlouis/news_and_information/District6News.shtml?action=displaySSI&newsId=41140
Here are articles profiling plans on how to replace this bridge and opinions about the decision to remove it:
http://bridgehunter.com/story/1100/
http://rwarn17588.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/what-to-do-about-the-route-66-state-park-bridge/
http://missouri66.wordpress.com/
While I am not altogether too interested with preserving bridges there did seem to be a running sentiment in most articles I was able to find about the route 66 bridge. Most published material was lamenting the destruction of the bridge as it was just listed on the national record of historic places. The first comment on the first link regarding this bridge above expressed the following view on the bridge closing and replacement:
"It is very ironic that MO wants to remove the bridge given its "excellent record" of HB preservation. This is given the fact that a bridge similar to that but located in Shakopee, MN is being renovated and converted into pedestrian traffic next year, with support from MnDOT!!! I suggest MoDOT contact MnDOT and discuss the situation with the people there and figure out a way to save the bridge, using the Shakopee example. Otherwise I find it a capital sin to destroy a NRHP bridge like this one. I can't believe that the NPS does not have much authority over these bridges..."
If there are groups of advocates wanting this common goal is there any way GORC could attempt to rally with them and sway MoDot's decision of complete removal of the bridge and instead convert it to a pedestrian bridge as cited here? Building a new bridge in place can still easily be done, renovating the old bridge for pedestrian use would not require very much more money considering the high cost that is already being used on a new bridge in this exact spot.
Assuming these efforts fail (or it is already too late to start trying to set them in motion) is anything in the works or at anyone's attention to have a bike lane placed on this new bridge? Considering that the visitor center for the park is across the meramec from it I would expect the bridge will be built relatively soon (in govt. terms). This seems to be an excellent opportunity for GORC to cook up the rest of the trail in the time leading up to completion.
Adding on to previous post....how much of the al foster extension is cleared with landowners etc. (specifically in each direction)?
I know I've said this before but I think I'd sell my soul for a bridge from Cwood to Chubb to make this system complete.
*Edited multiple times as I found more and more material on this |
Edited by - Deserteagle99uzi on 12/14/2009 01:35:26 AM |
|
|
|
Thrasher
222 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 1:27:17 PM
|
I need to touch base with some of the folks up at Wildwood city hall about this. Last I discussed it (over a year ago) they were working on securing easements along the old rail grade to get them to the Eureka city line - which is approximately across 109 from Eureka HS.
Their first obstacle is to get a bridge to span the old rail bridge footings right in Glencoe itself. The Marymount (?) retreat has already granted access from Glencoe south to their property line, which is a pretty decent run. There is a boulder field further south that is marked with purple no-trespassing paint, so I don't think that access is granted (at least yet).
Wildwood held a dinner meeting for all the property owners to discuss the easements, and I was told most were very receptive. Luckily, the homes are way up on the hill/bluff, so it won't really be seen as an intrusion of their privacy.
I just saw an article in the local paper about a developer buying up 14 parcels in the old town of Glencoe who is seeking zoning to allow him to build residential/retail development there. If this gets approved, it would generate a one-time obligation to the city parks fund (Public Space ordinance). That may be sufficient to fund or jump-start this project.
Wildwood is completing a pretty nice 5 acre park right in Glencoe, just North of the Al Foster trailhead, so they are interested in improving the area.
Let me check in with them and I'll post an update.
I sure hope someone figures out how to keep/replace the bridge @ Route 66. |
|
|
|
Deserteagle99uzi
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 01:28:44 AM
|
Looks like MoDOT backed off the demolition of the bridge awaiting hope that "somebody" will make it into a pedestrian bridge.
http://rwarn17588.wordpress.com/2009/12/05/route-66-state-park-bridge-gets-a-reprieve/
Don't know if the bridge technically lies in wildwood territory but a rehab of this bridge for pedestrian use could possibly be tied in with some al foster work if it was made clear that it could form a loop in the near future.
Might be worth attempting to contact trailnet, GRG, and/or dept of natural resources/dept of tourism. The motivation to convert this bridge would probably be much higher if each of these groups had a promise of a few workdays to put in an access trail to this bridge from GORC and the meetup group (I'm thinking followup to the greensfelder co-op workdays).
While the route to greensfelder would take some creative trail blazing it seems the path up to the Al Foster would be fairly simple tracing along the bank of the meramec. As long as this area drys out frequently it would work very well. While a trail of this length would be quite the undertaking the payoff would be huge as there would finally be a nice link from chubb to castlewood (and eventually RR and greensfelder) that wouldn't just be a 1/2 roads 1/2 weedwacking trail but a true scenic epic trail all its own giving weekenders another trail to enjoy and enthusiasts a 20+ mile loop.
I'm not sure how much GORC collaborates with GRG but here is a link to there work map:
http://www.greatrivers.info/Projects/CurrentProjectsMap.aspx
They are in the "planning" process of one more leg forward on the al foster to get it to rockwood res. It also looks like a trail from route 66 park to kircher park (just south of 44) is being "engineered" so this would be a very good reason to get them involved with getting a pedestrian bridge in quickly connecting the chubb to there network.
I will be taking some of this weekend or possibly next week to see what I can scout out along the west meramec shoreline on a boat if possible. The googlemap satellite shots have a dim outline of what looks like an old trail running nearly the entire run from al foster to route 66 park. Hopefully I will be able to find something of use.
Is there any info on rehabilitation of the castlewood area from al foster to scenic river? cleaning up and re-opening that section will probably be important later on in the game and it is only about a 1/4 mile of trail that the river has wrecked.
Ultimately what I'm seeing is setting up the parking lot at west end of the Al Foster as a hub allowing access to south chubb, west castlewood and north greensfelder+Rockwood res via access trails. These trails would be as follows:
1. Al Foster East to stinging nettle in C-wood
2. Connector trail south to GRG planned route 66 trail + ped. bridge to chubb (Insert clever name here)
3. GRG 2/3 build and still in progress connector to Melrose Road w/ bike lane (possibly blazed path alongside road) to northern Greensfelder EV trailhead.
This would give excellent mostly singletrack access to all 3 parks with the exception of a bit of grind up EV which hopefully could be rerouted a bit further east in the future. I made a quick googlemap of this set of connectors here:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&om=1&source=embed&msa=0&ll=38.531247,-90.612144&spn=0.091717,0.154324&z=13&msid=110828809023091044269.00047c01b9c17fe550321
Please feel free to criticize at will, after playing around on googlemaps it just seemed like the most logical plan forward. |
Edited by - Deserteagle99uzi on 12/31/2009 02:26:53 AM |
|
|
|
stlmtbiker
116 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 09:22:17 AM
|
| Looks like an awesome plan. I'd love to help out if we start building trails. |
|
|
|
Deserteagle99uzi
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 10:57:01 PM
|
I modified the map a bit to reflect reality after scouting the area.
I walked/drove the entire trail mapped out using my phones GPS overlayed on googlemaps and adjusted the map on the fly (Shameless advertising for Droid). I also used the VGA quality camcorder on my phone to take vids of almost all the areas in question which I will upload and link here shortly.
I was not able to check the southern 3/4 of the red line or the light blue line and coordinating orange to that trail. The orange inside route 66 state park has horse trails extending all the way to kircher park under 44 and extending all the way up to where the light blue line begins. I walked and verified all of this.
I will be checking out the rest of the red and the light blue/orange in a day or two.
The northern part of the red is the only difficult part of the entire trail system. There is a waterway that is about equivalent to the creek crossing at C-Wood. Near the meramec there is a pair of old rotting towers about 50' high which once supported an old rail bridge. I doubt the structural integrity is there to put a new bridge in so the most plausible solution would be constructing a pedestrian lane alongside 109 perhaps behind a rail guard as there is a solid bridge there. From there all of the land appears to be owned by a retreat group and there is heavily wooded parts heading all the way to a decrepit old vehicle entrance to the retreat. It once led to 109 but has not been used in over 40 years and may be available. If not there is plenty of thickly wooded parts to wind a trail through to get to the old rail trail that is visible from the north side of the bridge.
GRG has constructed a full path all the way up to rockwood reservation. From there you would still have to cross 109 to get into RR and there is a small 1/2 mi or so stretch along glencoe rd. that would need a trail if one wasn't comfortable riding along the road (20mph) and there is some room to do this, not ample but some. From that point there is clear trails all the way up to the ranger station running alongside the road and terminating at the greenrock trailhead which then is a straight shot into GreensFelder. The only problem being of course that RR policy right now bans any bikes on any trails (but not on roads). An alternative I've mapped out is tracing along melrose to a point where melrose has greensfelder directly south of it and then making a 1/2 mi or so trail legally on GF land to the greenrock on GF land. Honestly after looking at it I would spend the extra time and effort and try to get RR to allow biking on some trails. The Greenrock would benefit a ton from rerouting which GORC will eventually do (my only exp hiking on it was that it was in pretty lousy shape) and the trail along the road is already ideal hardpacked singletrack that doesn't appear to be in any kind of risk of abuse, overuse or destruction.
The last piece of the puzzle is the route 66 bridge. The bridge itself looked fine, no clear structural issues so I'm guessing the weight limit on the concrete was becoming a problem as it is a fairly long truss bridge. I doubt there is much danger of pedestrian traffic collapsing it anytime soon but I have not seen the actual engineering reports on why it was closed etc. There were a few rangers surveying the area around it when I stopped to check it out so I'm betting the park is formulating a plan for it in the next few months. It's worth noting the route 66 park gift shop and memorabilia store is on the east side (west tyson side) of the bridge so that is more motivation for the park to somehow maintain the bridge for pedestrian traffic.
From the route 66 bridge the horse trails extend to kircher park, loop back up to route 66 park crossing under 44 twice and also go along the back of route 66 state park making 2 huge loops. the trails go from the northwest edge of route 66 state park further west and that is where I will be starting my hike with hopes to find a clear dryish path up to the south side of the old 50' bridge at the retreat property just 30' or so south of the western terminus of the Al Foster trail. I also spoke with a couple members of the retreat and made sure they were ok with me hiking around the edges of there property. I drop up most of the public roads with houses on them along 109s western edge and took videos along property lines looking out over the meramec and it is so steep all the way along this huge bluff that it is near impossible to even see the bottom where the trail would reside. I honestly can't see a landowner having an issue with a trail down there as it is out of sight and so far down you couldn't even hear a vehicle much less ped. traffic ever. |
|
|
|
rockbreaker
Germany
445 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 08:40:13 AM
|
| We were talking about the Route 66 Park bridge at a party over the weekend. The problem is with one of the bridge piers. The river has eroded the base and it could cave in causing a total failure of the structure. |
Glenn
GORC Trail Steward Creve Coeur Park
"St. Louis County's First Park" |
|
|
|
stlmtbiker
116 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 09:06:25 AM
|
Rockwoods is really strict about any policy changes. I was trying to talk to them about building a 100 yard connector trail to connect Trail Among the Trees and Lime Kiln Trail, but the director was adament against it. He said since it is a conservation area, new trails have to be approved by government in Jeff City and that would take a year. He said pretty much that I shouldn't try because it is so difficult to get anything done with all the approvals.
Right now, Green Rock isn't too good for bikes. There a lots of steep fall line climbs that last for several hundred yards and would need to be rerouted to be bikable. Maybe Rockwoods could be like Castlewood and allow bikes of some trails, but not on others. Rockwoods has several trails, Rock Quarry and Trail Among the Trees that aren't suitable for bikes because of large stairways through steep terrain. Maybe make the Green Rock Trail that is open to bikers and hikers that goes to Melrose, and keep the Rock Quarry, Trail Among the Trees, and Lime Kiln Trails hiker only. |
|
|
|
Deserteagle99uzi
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 7:36:07 PM
|
Just to clarify on the last post the connector trail that goes alongside glencoe in RR is considered part of the lime-kiln trail and looked like it would be fine for bike use. I don't know about the rest of the loop and I was considering it only as a connector to get from the melrose/glencoe split up to the start of the greenrock. The roadway along melrose goes through several housing communities and would probably not be that suitable for a trail of any kind alongside the road.
I've hiked trail among the trees and it is definitely not suitable in the least for bikes.
The greenrock access could easily be justified by the fact that GF is willing to allow bike use on all of it within its park boundaries.
The designation of RR is still just a standard wildlife preservation area as far as I could tell. I spoke with several rangers on duty there and it is not a wilderness area or anything like that. I am still kind of confused as to why there is a such a stranglehold on pet/bike/multi use in that park to the point of restricting nearly all enjoyable activites when most other large parks in the area are much more lenient.
|
|
|
|
Deserteagle99uzi
USA
249 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 8:05:52 PM
|
This may have a significant impact on RR biking rules. I'm not sure if this is being pushed by GRG but the article mentions biking use in the underpass and linking up a trail to the existing trail by manchester road that goes up to lafayette high school. No date on the wildwood articale is mentioned so i'm not sure if the aug 26 meeting was last year or what but I sure hope they put the bike underpass in and RR is pressured to change there biking restrictions. The construction date is july 4 - labor day 2010.
Wildwood article:
http://www.newsmagazinenetwork.com/news/wildwood/090825-1328/modot-close-part-hwy-109-next-summer-bridge-replacement
MoDOT article:
http://www.modot.mo.gov/stlouis/major_projects/BridgereplacementonRoute109.htm
There is all the info you really need to know on the MoDOT article. I really can't imagine wildwood not going ahead with a ped underpass simliar to the one at the western end of the Al Foster.
Playing around on google searching for things to do with rockwood reservation and wildwood bike trail took me to an old archived gorc article which I believe Thrasher was posting in. Found this qoute:
" quote:We continued under the RR bridge until the trail took us to where a bridge should have been and the trail dumped us down to a creek crossing. I saw trails on the other side of the creek, but we had run out of time. Where does that trail lead to?
Sounds like you got to Glencoe at the first missing RR span? You can continue on the other side all the way to I-44 and into the new Route 66 State Park. That is mainly, if not all, reserved for future Al Foster expansion. It's ridable, just not improved. The DRJ guys like to ride a loop from Castlewood out that way and do the Chubb trail, then complete the loop using 141, etc to get back to Castlewood. "
Which effectively answered my question of whether you could take the trail I could vaguely see from googlemaps satellite images from the western end of Al Foster to Route 66 state park. This post was made almost 5 years ago. If this trail is there already is there any way at all to throw a pedestrian lane on the 109 bridge here to crest that small creek that the old railroad bridge tie is missing from. As I stated before some christian retreat technically owns the land on the other side but I doubt they would be horribly opposed to a bike trail being developed as long as it stayed on the outskirts of there property. From the post I gathered that the rest of the trail is still mostly there in one form or another. Will investigate on foot as soon as the weather gets over 20 degrees F.
Here is the link to the original thread:
http://www.gorctrails.com/board/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=1131 |
Edited by - Deserteagle99uzi on 01/02/2010 8:23:57 PM |
|
|
|
stlmtbiker
116 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2010 : 08:09:42 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Deserteagle99uzi
Just to clarify on the last post the connector trail that goes alongside glencoe in RR is considered part of the lime-kiln trail and looked like it would be fine for bike use. I don't know about the rest of the loop and I was considering it only as a connector to get from the melrose/glencoe split up to the start of the greenrock.
The rest of the trail makes a rocky climb over some ledges and then goes back down to the road before making a fairly steep climb up to a ridge. Then, it follows two track along the ridge with several ups and downs before descending back to the trailhead. Its okay for bikes, but its fine to use as a connector. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Greensfelder Teaser Map
